Following Clues, Creating Belonging

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Andrea Robb is a talent advisor, designer, and leadership coach. In her conversation with Jesse, she draws on her experiences as a talent executive and consultant to lay out a vision for the future of the workplace experience and of talent management.

 

Episode Notes

Andrea Robb is a talent advisor, designer, and leadership coach. In her conversation with Jesse, she draws on her experiences as a talent executive and consultant to lay out a vision for the future of the workplace experience and of talent management. Andrea shares her views on post-COVID working realities and how forward-thinking teams might improve the employee experience and promote greater empathy and inclusivity. She shares deep insights from her time at Airbnb, including how they turned the company’s external purpose around Belonging into a distinctive employee culture. Andrea discusses the relationship between company purpose, belonging, diversity, and inclusion, talks about lessons learned early in her career at Lucasfilm, and reflects on the importance of discovering and acting on clues that one finds during their career and life.

How will COVID shape the workplace moving forward? How do you help creative talent develop their skills? How do companies create an inclusive culture where employees feel belonging? How can belonging be incorporated into diversity and inclusion programs? How can you start discovering your purpose?

Guest Bio

Andrea is a former HR leader at Lucasfilm, Airbnb, and Autodesk--with a focus on Organization Development and Learning. She is now an entrepreneur and advisor to organizations on the future of work and education, as founder of Andrea Robb Consulting. Current and former clients include Dive Studios, Lucasfilm, Airbnb, Stanford University, CompassPoint, and Weebly.com. She is also a founding partner at HumanCentric Labs, which seeks to redefine and design how organizations work, using agile, self-management, and human centered design research.

She works with organizations in the public and private sectors that seek modern ideas for work - including organization design, talent strategy, recruiting, learning + development, people analytics, and diversity + belonging. Andrea also holds a board position on The Alumni Association of the University of Michigan.

She holds a Bachelor’s in Psychology from the University of Michigan and a Masters in Education and Public Policy from the Harvard Graduate School of Education. She lives in San Francisco with her husband and two children.

Building Blocks

Think about your life right now and also to take a trip back in time.What clues there are in your personal, educational, and professional background that might hint at what you could go build or how you could build. Are you somebody who really enjoyed being a camp counselor as a teenager? A swim coach and you've loved nature your whole life? Maybe that implies something about a career move related to improving our planet, climate, or great outdoors. Maybe you're a person who finds Zen in reading or writing, but so far you've only taken on blogs and papers. What would it look like for you to consider writing your first book? Take an honest and complete look back, and maybe do it over the course of two or three settings and see what clues you come up with and write about some of the possibilities those clues might portend for you.

Helpful Links

+ Episode Transcript

Andrea Robb [00:00:06] It is never, ever a waste of time to reflect on those clues from your life about what your purpose is, what do you really care about doing, but also those clues around what am I really good at? And following that and letting your passions drive the direction you take. Don't ever give your own self short shrift and reflecting on what you want to do in the world and what you're great at and talk to people around you if you don't know where to begin because they observe things in you that you don't see in yourself.

Jesse Purewal [00:00:49] From Qualtrics Industries, this is Breakthrough Builders, a series of conversations with people whose passions, perspectives, instincts and ideas fuels some of the world's most amazing products, brands and experiences.

Jesse Purewal [00:01:07] I'm Jesse Purewal. On today's show, I talked to talent pro and work futurist Andrea Robb, formerly of Levi Strauss, Lucasfilm and Airbnb. She's consulting full time now. Andrew Robb consulting. In our conversation, we cover lots of ground, including the importance of belonging and how companies can build and measure it, how to find and follow clues in your life that'll help you along a path to do meaningful work. And what tech companies are doing really wrong in today's competition for talent and what can be done to fix it. Enjoy, Andrea Robb.

Jesse Purewal [00:01:43] I am here with Andrea Robb, Andrea, it's fantastic to have you here. Thanks for coming on the podcast.

Andrea Robb [00:01:48] Great to be here with you, Jessie. Congrats on the podcast.

Jesse Purewal [00:01:52] Can you start us off? Actually, Andrea, by just framing your place in the world professionally, I think in a really good way, I find it hard to put you in a proverbial box and say, Andrea is this kind of leader or she's that kind of executive. So let me ask you to use your own words. How would you frame who you are as a professional?

Andrea Robb [00:02:11] Yeah, it's a great question, especially for someone like me and what I do in the world. I really describe what I do is I, I help you design the company you'd want your kids to work for. So when I work with companies, my goal, whether it's org design leadership development program design, looking at culture, talent acquisition in my leadership roles, my purpose is to help you build the right design for your company for the right reasons. So the purpose of your company and really being mission driven is so critical right now. And that's also important for me when I'm working with companies to really understand whatever you're doing, that you're doing it for the right reasons and then your talent and your H.R. programs and practices really follow in suit from a much deeper place.

Jesse Purewal [00:02:58] I love it. I love it and agree with the framing around empathy and purpose. There were probably a lot of different vectors that you could have pursued as you stepped into your career. Were there things that happened early in your life or earlier in your career that signaled to you that, hey, working on the talent side, the people side of the human capital side was going to be a source of energy and the place you wanted to contribute.

Andrea Robb [00:03:17] So growing up in the large family that I did, you can imagine we all were interested in a lot of different things for me growing up. I loved I loved beauty. I loved art. I love design. I loved making things. And I loved beautiful things from clothes to homes to photos. And then, you know, I was raised in a large family that was a natural environment also of just observing people. So there was this whole side of me that was interested in psychology behavior, but I was interested in how it all worked together. And I was the youngest. So I was looking around thinking, how do I navigate this family? So either that it's advantageous for me or I stay out of trouble. So those were that was really a natural environment for me to think about people, how they tick. And in a larger system, this space of organization development, how people work together, it's super complex, it's messy. And it turns out those problems, those messy problems, those are attractive to me. They're delicious. They look hard. I tend to jump into the fray. And lastly, being in a big family, you know, my mom would often say to me, Andrea, if we were talking about something, you know, life's not fair. And I would say, well, why can't we strive to make it fair? And, you know, I'm sure she was either delighted or exhausted by that answer, but that was another clue. I think that just really focusing on making it fair for all in the workplace is really important to me. I really focus on diversity and belonging a lot and and that all is rooted in that space of can we make it equitable and fair for everyone, because that to me is just how the world should be designed.

Jesse Purewal [00:05:09] And Andrea talk to me about what you really, really think will happen post covid. So on one hand, you have the controlled chaos of people who are working from home and doing school from home and doing everything from home and trying to make it all work. And on the other hand, you have people who are feeling huge bouts of loneliness because they literally cannot see or be in contact with other people in their lives. And so both sides have it very tough. As you think about next year and when people are back to health and we can be in physical spaces again, do you think that there will be a coming together of, well, maybe we can still do more at home, but it doesn't have to be so crazy and maybe I can still get more time alone and not have to sort of always be in the office or or do you think we'll move back to structures that are a little bit similar to what we saw in 2020?

Andrea Robb [00:06:05] I hope we don't snap back to 2020 where we're all online all the time. I think the design challenge here is pulling the insights through the data, through surveys, through empathy interviews and design practices to really understand what worked and what didn't. So you have to start imagining a future and working back from there and understanding what practices you want to retain and which ones you're happy to let go of. And I think everyone will be happy to let go of Zoom call after Zoom call after Zoom call. That really just reflects the practices of running around, meeting to meeting, often inefficiently inefficient and poorly run meetings. I, I really encourage HR leaders and talent leaders to think about how would we design differently and not only just work around the edges and improve the way we clock in and clock out, but rather we say OK, well, what is the workplace for now? What kinds of and how do we design the gathering? And we could have a smaller footprint, as one example, save some money, but actually gather in an intentional ways, gather for small team meetings and for longer face to face meetings where that's really critical. But to come in and I'll put your headphones on and work away at a computer together and pay for people to sit at their station, does that really make sense anymore? I don't think it does.

Jesse Purewal [00:07:42] So let me take you, Andrea, to your your time at Airbnb, if you will. I think people are fascinated by the juggernaut that Airbnb is. It's a successful business. It reframed a legacy category. The business was going gangbusters. And then covid hits and it looks like it's going to go into a tailspin and they have a bad quarter or two. But after some tough restructuring decisions, the company kind of gets gets through it to my mind, to pull off the growth that they pulled off and then pull off the execution during 2020 that they did has got to be a product of having incredible people, great talent up and down. The company, which I know you had a huge hand in standing up strategies, talent and or. Org structures around. So talk a little bit about how you and your team went about creating that.

Andrea Robb [00:08:30] Yeah, you know, Airbnb has with the recent activity and it being back in the press so much around the recent IPO, I was really reminded of how and why I came into Airbnb in the first place. And I think the one thing they got really, really right is the idea of community huge credit to the founders. Brian, Nate and Joe really got that right early. And that still shows today and how they work and how they focus on the host and the employees and the overall community. So many, many years ago, I was one of the early hosts. We live in San Francisco. I have a family home and a traditional Victorian near a subway on a park. So when I first started my own practice and left Lucasfilm after 10 years, I had this epiphany that I couldn't actually get paid for my time off. So I thought, you know, one way to do that when we travel is to share our home with others. And that's really how I came into the ecosystem, that is, or the community of Airbnb. And then I ended up consulting. So I was consulting for Airbnb for some time and it became about 70 to 80 percent of my book of business and ultimately then came in full time and led the talent management team there. And over time, I led a lot of different components of H.R. because my learning intention there was I really want to understand how a high growth company works. We spent a lot of time thinking about and keying off of in talent this idea of belonging so many years ago, now, they the founders hired Douglas Atkin. He was an expert in brands and he really he wrote a book on the cult of brands and the positive brands that really gained the followership of their customers and the enthusiasts behind the brand. The purpose of Airbnb at the end of the day is to help anyone belong anywhere in the world. And we got curious around what would it mean to define the belonging journey on the inside? Because if employees are meant to design a platform of experiences that enable hosts to help strangers belong in their homes or belong in new communities through Airbnb experiences, then we have to be thinking about the belonging journey of people. And then also, as you can imagine, while I've been in H.R., we called it employee experience at Airbnb. I felt like, boy, wouldn't this intuitively I thought belonging you must be a deeper, meaningful measure than engagement. And it was really on that curiosity that I began to work both with Douglas to define the belong here journey for our employees. And we really started to think about managers as hosts of employees and coaching. And then it really culminated in starting to do some more formal data and measurement around belonging. So I would say that's the thing that I was most inspired by and proud of when I was working there. And it really was connected to the overall company mission, which is really driven the success of that company.

Jesse Purewal [00:12:08] Let me ask you about the time basis, if I if I could, for a moment of belonging. So what's convenient about engagement is that one may be engaged for minutes, hours, weeks, months, years belonging. When it hits my ear as you talk it through, strikes me as something that needs to be earned, cultivated, built over time. That one doesn't just show up on a Tuesday at two o'clock, the meeting go, I feel like I belong. Did you feel particularly in this world where, you know, we have to your earlier point yet mastered, you know, how to become truly employee centric versus hierarchy centric? Were the risks here? Were there folks who said, well, wait a minute, I'm I'm here to go build a great product rather than to belong? Or was it actually sort of just what the doctor ordered in terms of making sure you pulled the right people in and retained the right people that were going to help fulfill this purpose that you were out there to inspire hosts and travelers to experience?

Andrea Robb [00:13:17] It turns out we actually, even in businesses, are quite emotional human beings like we can bring all the data we want to a table and we should. But often we end up making emotional decisions. based on how we're feeling, what I was interested in is when you walk in the door of Airbnb, you're one you were chosen out of many, many, many other resumes. And you know that walking in. The imposter syndrome, there was real. And then imagine what we learned is that through story and through data and through surveys, imposter syndrome could feel even worse for women or people of color. And so to me, this was a clue that it was really important to focus on, not only because Airbnb was the kind of place that wanted you to experience the sense of community, and that's what we're building in the world. So there was a business connection to it. But also what I've learned in the purpose research out there is it actually has very, very strong correlation to bottom line effect. And the more and more I looked into it, I, I started to realize that companies counterintuitively that focused on the customer actually had slower growth growth rates than the ones who focused on the design around belonging and purpose and that alignment between employees and and the company, because then employees are naturally driven to bring their love and passion for the business and their passion and strengths to solving problems for customers. And what you saw were these vast improvements in growth rates when companies were focused on purpose and belonging, as is a measurement or an unlock there.

Jesse Purewal [00:15:05] And Andrea, talk a little bit maybe about the distinction between belief in a company's purpose and feeling as if you belong. I could imagine if I think of one of my best employers, Starbucks, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who disagreed with the premise of it's a good idea to nurture the community, one cup of coffee at a time. Sounds like a great ambition, but did everyone want to be in a retail business selling a premium product and opening stores at the rate that they did? It was there were certain elements of how they paid off on that purpose that maybe the company wasn't for everyone, even if everyone was like, we're doing great things. So once you sort of understand that you've got people who affiliate and feel as if they belong. How do you go the next stage of the journey and go, well, now we're going to make this the right employment experience for you.

Andrea Robb [00:15:57] I'm really glad you asked the question because, you know, feeling affiliation towards the mission or purpose of the company is not the same as feeling belonging day to day and all of the small interactions that you experience as a person. So both are needed. And, you know, often I think purpose alignment is looking up and seeing that North Star and saying, yes, I want to be part of that belonging is sort of the the floor. You know, it's it's the foundation by which Douglas, who we worked with, he often would say when you achieve a sense of true belonging, what we learned through his research was people used words like I when I felt I belonged the most is when I could be unedited. I didn't have to worry about the words I was using. I was my full self, warts and all. And I knew that people would accept me for that because I was connected in and aligned on the purpose. People appreciated my passion or my expertise. And one word that was used that was so compelling for us was someone said, when I felt like I most belong, I felt like me amplified. And I thought, that is so powerful. In fact, Kate Shaw, who leads the learning team there, her team actually took that word and ran with it. So the management training at Airbnb is called Amplify.

Andrea Robb [00:17:36] And it was really drawn from that inspiration, which was, gosh, wouldn't you want that for everyone? And going back to my purpose, I'm trying to help companies build environments where their kids would want to work. And what I am seeing in that simple word is exactly what I'd want for my kids is I can be me and I can take risks and I can even fail. And people are still going to love me and they're going to bring me back into the fold and we're going to try again. And I feel like I'm my best self, even bigger because I'm working in this team that inspires me, are working for this mission.

Jesse Purewal [00:18:10] And Andrea, what advice or what what coaching would you give CHROs or heads of talent or even people just leading teams to start to advance this feeling of belonging? How do you how would you counsel people in that regard?

Andrea Robb [00:18:26] First of all, I think it's important to just understand. The difference between inclusion and belonging and so diversity is getting different people in, you hear this metaphor a lot. Diversity is having lots of different people in the room. Inclusion might be invited to that dance, but belonging is being able to dance to your own music and dance in your own way. So here's the advice I'd give. There's a plethora of research out there on belonging, so I would get curious and start to look at that and it's publicly available. So I worked with Dr. Greg Walton. He is the foremost expert on belonging. He is at Stanford. And so what we ended up doing is working with him on understanding what experiences can increase or decrease belonging. There's data out there and he has made it pretty accessible. Another person who I worked with from Forshay Consulting is Dr. Lauren Aguilar, and she studied under Greg. But we actually looked at the different measurements that drove a baseline and through survey form. And what we were really interested in is would an increase in belonging translate into other good things? And so you can use that baseline and then start to work on things that are meaningful around belonging and inclusion and start to see if they're working and if they're improving. So I would say just start to dig into the research at Stanford, through Greg and through Lauren and Forshay Consulting Online. I really hope people understand that there are clues there to design things like your onboarding. I mean, really tangible things around how you bring people into a company to increase the chance that they feel belonging. Therefore, sooner they'll take risks for your team and for your company. And isn't that what we all want for fulfillment individually, but also for our companies?

Jesse Purewal [00:20:32] Mm hmm. Andrea, you mentioned before you're based in San Francisco, Silicon Valley area, home to a lot of tech companies. And I know you've been in and around a lot of them throughout your career. Tech has been sort of equally revered and reviled, depending on kind of what what news is breaking around, what what things are happening in some of these companies. And reality is tech has become such a key contributor to our economic growth and our job growth. What are the things, broadly speaking, that you observe tech companies to be getting right in the talent equation and and where maybe is the growth of tech possibly causing too many trade offs or compromises that you think need to be rethought as we consider the future of work?

Andrea Robb [00:21:17] What I think they're getting right often is what they're producing in the world, how they're producing it, the purpose for which they're producing it and not always being true and honest to it. So there's this term called purpose washing. So one thing I think they're not getting right is if you don't really have a deep purpose then and mission to make the world a better place, you're simply building something that could simplify lives and then maybe you will discover a purpose that's bigger, that's meaningful. Don't bring in a false purpose and hope people connect to that because they'll see very quickly both your customers and your employees that it's a hollow promise. So that would be one I think is just really get clear in stages for what you're doing and why you're doing it and let that evolve over time. But by and large, I think as a H.R. leader, I have drawn more inspiration outside of technology for great practices than I have in. And here's why I think that this war for technology talent has created an unfair, uneven playing ground for employees. So if you're a tech employee right now, you are often paid more. You're in a different compensation class and they know it. It's very I mean, they're very open employees on trying to optimize for their pay. Who wouldn't? But now with social media and slack and blind people can share that information very readily. So I think the challenges we've created almost unfairly to this generation that we will pay almost anything to get you in. And your pedigree, your degree is really kind of what matters most to us. I think that's a false premise because the data showing Tier one schools over time, computer scientists over time don't perform any better from Tier one schools than Tier two, three, four. In fact, tier two, three, four start to outperform over time once they make. Up for the leg, up some of the Tier one schools kids have by walking in with more budget and more credibility. So I think the the injustice is then they start to hear from their peers and this natural sort of human behavior kicks in like, am I getting paid as much? Am I getting the right projects? And my progressing at the same level. And I'm finding that H.R. ends up being beholden to that demand. And I don't think it's the tech workers fault. I actually think it's the problem of all of the companies playing the same game, which doesn't seem like the smartest game to be playing, which is we're all going to fish in the same pools. We're all going to go to the same schools and try to compete for, quote unquote, top talent. And they're not actually looking at an understanding and measuring the research that shows who really performs. The people who perform are the ones who had a little bit of grit in life. They didn't have a rosy path to top degrees. It's that growth mindset and that grit and also people who have a purpose for themselves and they understand their passion.

Andrea Robb [00:24:40] Those are the clues to who to hire and we're getting it wrong. And therefore, all of our pay and talent practices are reflecting this trend. And some days, I think when I'm asked to be on panels, I think, you know, when I was at some companies in the Bay Area, I felt like, well, we're working on trying to get better, but I'm seeing companies like Nike or GM get some of those deeper talent practices. Right. That are not borne out of the war for talent in Silicon Valley. So that's really what I'm seeing as the biggest challenge that we have to untangle ourselves from in the Silicon Valley in technology companies.

Jesse Purewal [00:25:23] And so, Andrea, what do you think will be the forcing function that will really force a reckoning? Or are we in chapter one of that reckoning because of what covid has brought on, like what series of things and what sequence of things do you maybe see, you know, the denizens of Silicon Valley finally taking note note of this? Or will we only ever get a little bit better at this? Because we'll still be tending to reward the pedigree and the investment in the first tier degrees and all of that.

Andrea Robb [00:25:54] Right now, I am not seeing hyper growth companies needing to look inward. They need to be chasing growth. So I think the reckoning will be when there's a slowdown. And interestingly, you know, you see in these interviews recently with Brian Chesky and Airbnb, he said, you know, the slowdown, they lost 80 percent of their business in a matter of weeks and march due to covid their travel business. It was the slowdown that caused them to refocus. And they had their purpose clear and they had their values clear and they understood their community and their community was behind them. All of that came back together for them to be resilient, to move forward. And I think that that is the type of thing that's going to cause talent leaders then to follow suit, to say, well, we need that same focus, we need innovation and how we think about talent. And the other thing I think that could potentially change this as you start to see some smart companies shift their talent strategy and acquisition strategy so they start to fish in different ponds and are very successful as a result. I think that that will catch the attention of many and they might even start hiring people who never went to college and find that they're very successful.

Jesse Purewal [00:27:09] Let me talk to you then about specifically one set of experiences or one company that's Lucasfilm, you know, sitting somewhere between tech and the non non tech names. You mentioned it if if you had to sort of go back and reflect on your time there, because I think so many people are intrigued by what happens at companies like that in the media space and think about what it was like to to grow within or to look after talent in an organization with such a strong brand, a revered brand and a legacy like that. What what would what were those years like in your career and what kinds of things maybe did you did you put in place that don't make headlines in the way that they do and when a Google or a Facebook does it, but that have just been so critical to attracting and retaining the kind of talent to put out the amazing things that they do.

Andrea Robb [00:28:07] Yes, I know this is another company I've been very lucky to be a part of my experience. I was there for ten years, you know, and I was rather young when I started there. And my mentor, who actually brought me in to Levi Strauss, he actually got the phone call first from Lucasfilm and they were wanting to start. They are very first training and OD offering, so there was a lot of change going on and I think they recognized we really need someone who understands organizations and change. It was interesting because they called him and he's he's, you know, 10 years more experience than me.

Andrea Robb [00:28:44] And I really looked up to him and he said, you know, I think if you want someone to build this from scratch, I think you need to call Andrea because she's ready. You know, she's she's junior, but she's ready and she can build.

Andrea Robb [00:29:01] And that was what excited me about it was I walked in and there was the mystery of this company. I mean, very few people knew how it worked. There was this mysterious aura. But once I got in there, I noticed a lot of the practices were incredible, particularly in production and art and design and technology. There was a grind and a learning and they were at the forefront of their craft. Right. So they had to count on each other to get better. So they had practices like Dailys where they would get in a room every morning and they would have to hear tough feedback about their art or, you know, sometimes the technology, because it was really technology and art together. But then they'd go get it done and it would be better and they'd come back the next day. So there were clues in that for me around what happened. We try to build on that continuous learning mindset. So for me, over time, I built out the learning and development and organizational development practices and it was such an interesting journey. I felt like I had three different careers. But then and there was a freedom as a builder of them not having ever seen anything before like it. So I wasn't combating well at Google. We did X at Facebook, we did Y, it was, hey, what do you know and how can you help us? And that allowed me to drop my imposter syndrome and start to get curious about how do technologists who are very left brain and artists were very right brain come together and get stuff done. And that set me on this journey to really be interested in working with companies where there was some sort of art and science and there's alchemy or the chemistry that comes when they come together in that collaboration that got me focused on that's where I love to work. Those are interesting, messy problems.

Jesse Purewal [00:30:51] This is back to your opening remarks about being both a systems thinker and someone who admires beauty. You know that you probably even if it wasn't with the exact same tools of the trade as some of those creators, you came to the table with your own version of that alchemy and probably saw yourself reflected in some really interesting ways that across the table then, as they thought from the creative teams, like, oh, here's someone who over time they're probably realizing that someone who speaks our language and can help us advance things in the right direction.

Andrea Robb [00:31:23] That's right. And in really getting back to what I hope your listeners can take from this conversation, as it is never, ever a waste of time to reflect on those clues from your life about what your purpose is, what do you really care about doing? And that helps you align that with what a company or an organization or a team is doing, but also those clues around what am I really good at? And following that and letting your passions drive the direction you take. And if if you can do that, your career is so much more fulfilling because you're in control of it more, you are more articulate about what you want so that people recognize that and then come to you for those opportunities. So if there's one thing I hope your listeners hear me say today is don't ever give your own self short shrift and reflecting on what you want to do in the world and what you're great at and talk to people around you if you don't know where to begin because they observe things in you that you don't see in yourself.

Jesse Purewal [00:32:28] Well, I like your strategy of being able to observe and discern and reflect on clues. I think clues is is a really winning strategy. Seth, Seth Godin talks about I'm sure you've heard him talks about, you know, it can be a misnomer to say discover your purpose and then go work for it. It's like sometimes it can be a privilege to to do that. And sometimes you have to find purpose in the work that you have. But what you're doing is you're saying, well, it doesn't have to be find purpose in the work you have or wait until you find your purpose to do the work. It's more like the bread crumbs were there all along. What you have to actually do is look over your shoulder and go, where did I feel at my best? Where did I feel like I was contributing the most? Where did I maybe feel vulnerable in a good way? And I grew. And I think that can be powerful because anyone listening to this can can go through that exercise no matter where they are on the journey of divining where their purpose might stand.

Andrea Robb [00:33:28] Yeah, you're exactly right, and you know, what I've noticed is if you're a talent leader out there, it's not a winning strategy to go to people or hold a workshop and say, what's your purpose in the world? And, you know, what's your next statement or mission? Because what we learned and I surveyed in one company I was in just because I was curious, it was like how many people feel they can answer what their their purpose is in the world. And it was something around 10 to 15 percent responded favorably. So what I realized is this clue's strategy is a much better approach. So if you want to help people get clued into, you know, what they're good at or what they care about. Ask them to tell stories very much like you just asked me today about when you felt most alive as a kid or as a student or as a worker. And there are clues there, but it feels very existential and big to say what's your purpose or your mission? And I'm hoping schools start to do this for higher ed. And that's another sort of future goal for me and start to work with universities and colleges to really help people understand their purpose and their strengths.

Jesse Purewal [00:34:43] So, Andrea, my last question for you here would just be in thinking about that next step and counseling people who might be thinking about taking a similar step. You stood up your own advisory business. You're in the coaching business now where you are designing for organizations who are looking for ideas on talent, strategy and org design and learning and development and diversity and belonging. So now with the background of all of the great companies you've worked at. In the entrepreneurs seat, what would you advise people to do who might be looking to make a mid career move from something more traditional into something more entrepreneurial, whether it's in the talent space or or beyond?

Andrea Robb [00:35:26] Yeah, great question. So I used to use this phrase neat line. And it is a really it's a believe, it's a Buddhist phrase leap. And the net will appear. And I learned that early on that you can jump off cliffs and not everyone's built this way. And I'm not built that way really. I often am very thoughtful and careful, but I think my need of my native space is to take risks and to see what's on the other side. And so once I had some early experiences of leaping and it working out one time, I just quit my job with my now husband. And we went to Asia to travel and came back and we both came back to the same companies to better jobs. That was my first clue in life, that there is something to be said to trust and believe in yourself, to do what you want to do, even if there's no plan. Now, you still, though, have to have planned for those calculated risks. So for me, like with the Airbnb hosting, I learned when I went set out to stand up my advisory, how am I going to pay myself for when I'm not working? And you have to get creative about how you produce income for yourself in order for that phrase. So what's matured over time is like plan to have the net beneath you when you leap. So that would be one in another, looping back again to the message around your purpose and know your passion. Once you're clear about that, it will help you link up with the right people who are complementary to it, will help you link up with people who have a similar shared passion, values, purpose in the world, and that becomes a source of energy. It also becomes a source of security because you're typically more successful. And I think once you are creating momentum and you've done something risky, you need to make sure you're also continuing to pause and reflect. Because when you're on your own, you're hustling and hustling and hustling. Those little pauses help you go faster when you have to sprint again. So those would be the two things I'd share with people is find the right people to do this with in a formal or informal way and then pause and reflect when you can add natural brakes so that you can go faster and be smarter in the next sprint and the net will appear.

Jesse Purewal [00:37:57] I love it. Andrea, for the talent pro's listening here, where can they find Andrea Robb Consulting?

Andrea Robb [00:38:04] Yeah, so I have a website, Andrea Rob dot com, and I'm on LinkedIn and Twitter and I try to share what I see others doing or insights that I am seeing in the world of work so that we can all go build companies where we or our children are thriving.

Jesse Purewal [00:38:23] Well, Andrea, it's been a treat. I appreciate your time and your energy and your wisdom and all of the clues that you have left our listeners with today. I'm so glad for everything you're doing to shape the future of work. So thank you very much. Thanks for coming on the show.

Andrea Robb [00:38:38] Thanks, Jesse. This was fun. I appreciate the time to talk about all of these things that are so important to so many people in the world. And I hope that that people can take a moment to pause and reflect as they go into what is hopefully a better 2021 experience than 2020 was.

Jesse Purewal [00:39:04] Thanks to Andrea for joining us on the show today, you know, even though we heard a number of guests talk in Season one about the importance of working in accordance with your purpose, it was both really great to hear it reinforced again and really intriguing to hear Andrea's distinct take on it. I love how she talked about the clues she found and followed in her life and her career that led her from one step to another. I think it was some really practical wisdom and maybe a little bit of a weight off our shoulders to hear a talent show like her say, hey, it's not about just sitting down and writing your purpose in one fell swoop.

Jesse Purewal [00:39:39] It's about taking note of what things in your life really inspire you and move you to action and realizing that the collection of those things is what helps you unlock and articulate your purpose. So for this week's Building Block, I'd love you to think about your life right now and also to take a trip back in time and think about what clues there are in your personal, educational and professional background. That might be a way of unlocking what it is you could go build or how you could go build. Are you somebody who really enjoyed being a camp counselor as a teenager, a swim coach in your first job and you've loved nature your whole life? Maybe that implies something about a career move that has something to do with improving our planet, our climate, our great outdoors. Maybe you're a person who finds Zen when you sit down to read and write, but so far you've only taken on blogs and papers. What would it look like for you to consider perhaps writing your first book, take an honest and complete look back and maybe do it over the course of two or three settings and see what clues you can come up with and write about some of the possibilities that you think those clues might portend for you. If you want some templates for the exercise, check out the show notes right here in the app. You're listening to this episode on or over on our website, Breakthrough-Builders.com, that's Breakthru hyphen builders dot com. Hit me up through the website and share some of your reflections. I'd love to hear from you and do what I can to help take care of breakthrough builders and bewell.

Season 2Jesse Purewalworkforce of the future, leadership, future workforce, workforce strategy, belonging, talent strategy, employee engagement, airbnb, covid